CPA Client Interviews: Four Keys

By Charles Hall | Auditing

Today we talk about four keys to better CPA client interviews.

Many times I have interviewed accounting staff and walked away thinking, “I have no idea what they just said to me.” Do you ever have this problem? If yes, this article is for you. Below I provide four keys to better client interviews.

In my early years–fresh out of college–I would think: “I must be stupid. It’s obvious, he understands what he just said, but I don’t.” Often my anxiety would increase when I realized the interviewee (e.g, accounts payable clerk) had no college degree (and me, a masters in accounting).

Reasons We Don’t Understand

After years of performing client interviews, I realized that I wasn’t dense (at least, not as much as I thought), and that I was encountering what The Art of Explanation calls, the “curse of knowledge.”

What is the “curse of knowledge?” It’s when someone knows a subject very well, and, consequently, has a difficult time imagining what it is like to not know it. I was experiencing the “curse of knowledge.” Those I interviewed thought I knew what they knew. As a result, they left out details.

Also, those I interviewed had years of experience doing the same job day after day. Of course they understood what they did. But I had less than an hour, in many cases, to grasp their duties.

Additionally, those I interviewed used a language unique to their office, and I, mistakenly, tried to use a different language—one I had learned in college. The result: we did not understand one another. So how can I communicate and comprehend better?

Here are four CPA client interview ideas guaranteed to to help. 

Four Keys to CPA Client Interviews

1. Pay attention to their language and use it.

If they call it a thingy, then I call it a thingy.

2. Seek understanding more than trying to impress.

I often want to impress more than I desire to understand. The remedy: Admit (maybe even out loud) I don’t know everything.

I tell the clerk, “Treat me like I don’t know anything. I’ve never been here, so I need your help in understanding what you do.”

To higher level personnel (e.g., CFO), I might say, “I have worked in this industry for fifteen years, but I need your help to understand how you guys operate.”

3. Repeat what is said to you.

For example, “May I repeat what you just said to make sure I understand? ‘The thingy is created once per week on Mondays to ensure that total receipts agree with deposits.’”

4. Use your cell phone to take pictures and to record parts of the interview.

Just last week, I reviewed a complex accounting system (for about three hours). As I did so, I used my cell phone Evernote app to take pictures of computer screens and printed reports. I also used the app to record parts of the conversation. Later, I summarized the conversation in memo form (complete with pictures).

Scanbot is another useful iPhone app if you take pictures of client information. By using your phone to take pictures, you can leave your physical scanner in your office.

Your CPA Client Interview Ideas

Have I left out any key interviewing ideas? Please share your thoughts.

Check out my series of articles about auditing.

Receipt Fraud: Would Andy Griffith Steal?

By Charles Hall | Asset Misappropriation

In this article we take a look at receipt fraud. 

Would Andy Griffith steal? Maybe not. But other law officers do. Thankfully, most don’t.

The Theft: Receipt Fraud

If you’ve watched Andy Griffith as much as I have, you may find it hard to believe a (small town) officer would steal–but it happens.

A friend of mine (we’ll call him John) audits a small Georgia city (this is a true story). One year he was reviewing the planning analytics for the audit, reviewing five years of comparative data. In scanning the comparisons, he noticed the police fines had fallen off significantly. So John asked the police chief why the fines were down.

The police chief (we’ll call him Robert) responded, “I took it.”

John laughed and said, “I’m serious, why do you think the fine revenue dropped?”

“I said I took it.”

John was stunned. It was hard for him to absorb what he was hearing. After all, fraudsters don’t generally confess on the spot–but this one did. And the chief was well-known and well-liked, a man known for his integrity.

The discussion continued as John inquired about how the chief took the money. Here’s the deal.

Robert had two receipt books, one for cash and one for checks. When checks were received, he would write a receipt from the checks receipt book–those funds were turned over to the city clerk. When cash was received, he wrote receipts from the cash receipts book–those monies went into his pocket. Simple, but effective, as he stole over $50,000.

The Internal Control Weakness

So, what control weakness allowed this receipt fraud?

No one was controlling the issuance of the city receipt books. Also, the city clerk should have noticed the lack of cash payments being received for fines.

Correcting the Receipt Fraud Weakness

How can we remedy this receipt fraud problem?

When governments use physical receipt books, assign the duty of purchasing and issuing receipt books to a particular person. He or she should maintain a log of the receipt books and who has each one.

Surprise audits of those receiving funds is another way to combat theft. These reviews can be performed by the government’s internal audit staff or by an outside CPA or Certified Fraud Examiner.

White-collar crime is real, so stay vigilant. (Even so, I still can’t believe the real Andy Griffith would steal.)

Stealing Unaccrued Receivable Checks is Easy

By Charles Hall | Asset Misappropriation

Stealing Unaccrued Receivable Checks

Some fraudsters steal unaccrued receivable checks and convert them to cash. In this article, I explain the mechanics of the theft and how you can prevent it.

The Theft of Checks Not Accrued

Susan is an hospital executive that has the authority to approve purchases of medical devices. She commonly receives rebate checks from vendors. Since she negotiates the purchase contracts, the vendors mail the rebate checks to her. Some of these checks are north of $50,000.

A while back she received a rebate check and placed it in her top left-hand drawer, thinking she would take it to accounting the next day. But she forgot.

A month later she opened her drawer, and there it was. Oops! She hurriedly took the check to the receipting department and said, “Gosh, I must be losing my mind.” They all laughed, knowing it was an innocent mistake. But in the course of these events, she realized that no one knew she had the check. Why would they? Susan approves the purchases, and she provides the rebate information to no one. So, the rebates are not accrued in the general ledger.

Not long thereafter, Susan decides to retain two of the rebate checks totaling over $100,000. She places them in the same left-hand drawer, but this time, she does so on purpose. And then she waits—several weeks. No one calls about the checks. It’s obvious that no one knows she has them.

Susan converts the checks to cash by depositing them into a new bank account that she has opened in the name of the hospital. She is the sole authorized signer for the new bank account.

Now, let’s see what the control weaknesses are and how we can remedy this problem. 

The Control Weakness 

The weakness is that no one is tracking or accruing the rebate checks.

The Fix 

How can we cure this weakness?

Determine what companies provide rebates checks (and any other checks commonly received and not accrued). Send confirmations to the paying parties and compare the confirmed amounts with activity in the general ledger.

A master list of rebate companies should be maintained by someone in accounting, and the related activity should be monitored by comparing receipting information to this list. When possible, accrue rebate receivables.

White-Collar Crime

This is one more example of white-collar crime. Click here for many more articles about theft. For a detailed article about auditing receivables, click here.

Splitting Payments to Circumvent Approval Requirements

By Charles Hall | Asset Misappropriation

Some fraudsters split payments to circumvent approval requirements. In this article, I show you how this type of theft works and what you can do to prevent it.

The Theft

The maintenance supervisor, Billy, wants to make a fraudulent payment to ABC Hardware for $9,900. (ABC Hardware is owned by his cousin.) So, Billy wants to avoid his company’s review process. He knows that all checks over $5,000 require the physical signature of the finance director. All checks below $5,000 are signed by the computer. What’s a boy to do? Well, Billy can split the transaction–two checks for $4,950 each. That will work.

Billy asks his cousin for two ABC Hardware invoices of $4,950 rather than the one for $9,900. Afterwards, Billy approves each invoice, and the payments are made.

So, Billy tries the scheme again, and it works. Then, he does so repeatedly. His cousin rewards him with free trips to South Dakota, his favorite hunting destination.

The Weakness

No one is querying the check register for payments just below the threshold. Also, bids were not obtained.

The Fix

Download the check register into Excel (or any database package). Then, sort the payments and look for repeated payments–just below the threshold of $5,000–to the same vendor.

Require bids for significant expenses, and retain the bids as support for the payments.

Difference in Bribes and Gratuities

Learning tip: The hunting trip is referred to as a gratuity rather than a bribe. Why? Bribes are inducement payments made before the purchase decision. Gratuities–free trips in this example–are given after the vendor payments. The purpose of the gratuity is to reward the complicit person (Billy). Then, in the future, Billy knows the drill and expects more of the same.

White-Collar Crime

Splitting payments is a form of white-collar crime. There are many ways that professionals steal. Click here for more fraud-related examples (some of which are hard to believe).

How Employees Steal with Company Credit Cards

By Charles Hall | Asset Misappropriation

Some people wonder Is using a company credit card for personal use embezzlement? It can be. Employees sometimes steal with company credit cards. Today, we look at a case where one employee was able to steal over $300,000 by misusing college credit cards.

The Theft

Donna Gamble made fraudulent purchases of over $300,000 using Georgia Tech purchase cards (credit cards).

Gamble was employed by Georgia Tech in the Parker H. Petit Institute for Bioengineering and Bioscience. As part of her job, she had access to Georgia Tech credit cards.

Gamble used the purchase cards to buy over 3,800 personal items. How did she hide her theft? She submitted false receipts to her supervisor and made fraudulent accounting entries. The thefts–taken from grant money provided to Georgia Tech by the National Science Foundation–occurred from April 2002 through April 2007. So money designed to advance educational learning was spent on personal items such:

• A popcorn machine
• Football tickets
• A wave runner
• Video games

Ms. Gamble was sentenced to two years and eight months in federal prison.

The Weakness

The internal control weakness that led to the theft was a lack of appropriate monitoring.

Credit cards provide a simple means to bypass normal purchasing policies. Most purchasing policies require the issuance of a purchase order prior to the purchase. Such purchase orders are provided by a second person–someone other than the purchaser. So, the authorization to purchase is separate from the bookkeeping. In other words, at least two people are involved in the purchase transaction. Having multiple people involved in such transactions strengthens the controls. Why? A single person can’t make purchases alone. Consequently, theft–when such controls are in place–requires collusion. Now, it’s more difficult to steal.

Many organizations don’t require purchase orders for credit card purchases. Therefore, one person can purchase without a second person’s involvement. Even when a second person authorizes purchases, theft can occur if that person doesn’t pay sufficient attention to purchase requests (and the related documentation).

The Fix

What’s the fix? The monitoring of credit card use. Persons using company credit cards must know that someone else sees their purchases. For instance, internal auditors should routinely audit credit card activity. And the users should know that such audits occur.

Theft, like the one above, occurs when the fraudster knows no one is looking–they believe they can steal, and no one will notice.

Here are some ideas to lessen the possibility of credit card fraud:

• Limit the number of cards issued
• Assign each card to one person
• Set low credit limits
• Keep all cards in a secure location
• Restrict card usage to particular vendors (which can be done with a purchase card)
• Require the person to provide support for each purchase
• If appropriate support is not provided, disallow the use of the card
• Reconcile monthly credit card statements to supporting documentation
• Audit personnel (internal or external) should review credit card activity
• Provide a summary credit card activity report for each employee to the governing body or owners of the company

For more information about white-collar crime, click here.